Salumist and owner of Olympia Provisions, Eli Cairo, set out to make the world’s best charcuterie – but had a second mission; to make it as ethically as possible. Ethical pork involves partnering with local farmers who raise their pigs humanely and sustainably.
Eli very generously let us set up a camera and bombard him with questions about the challenges of growing a business using only pasture raised pork but also about the amazing benefits and flavors to celebrate when the animals are allowed to live happy, healthy lives.
You can watch the full video here on our Youtube Channel, or check out the transcript below!
You can find out more by visiting: http://www.olympiaprovisions.com/
Or if you’re interested in utilizing Olympia Provisions products:
http://www.wholesale.olympiaprovisions.com/
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How the hell did this get started?
How did it get started?
Ever since we started Olympia Provisions, the goal was to make the best charcuterie in the world, not just America, and when you think about the best charcuterie producers in the world, they come from places that they actually care about the animals, and they understand how important that is, the final end product.
You know, my idols always are Ibérico pork or the amazing producers in the Alps and anybody that actually gives a damn. Then I started kind of looking around on how would I ever get animals raised to that standard to that quality? and it just didn’t exist. So in 2009, I worked with my first farmer directly to control diets and get his hogs on pasture, utilize the whole animal and I failed probably 15 times till now. Now we’re to where we’re at and it’s starting to actually happen.
What did you learn as you were failing?
I think my biggest takeaway and still to this day is that the meat industry is fucking disgusting. Sorry for swearing, but it just is what it is. You know, people will do anything to hide it and make you feel good without telling you the true story and that’s the thing of it. Besides the quality in the product that still fires me up every single day, so many of my chef friends and consumers and partners are just getting fucking lied to. You need somebody out there that’s willing to walk the walk and talk the talk, or these farmers and this whole infrastructure we’re trying to build just never going to happen.
Still to this day, you can get my product in Seattle and Portland, and there’s distributors and other companies that are walking into the same kitchens after I do it and lying to them saying, “Hey, we have this same quality pork that they do.” and completely greenwashing it and those pigs are tortured confinement animals, and there’s nobody to prove them wrong.
How can people tell the difference?
Well, first and foremost, I’d say you got to want to. You have to be able to ask the hard questions. I think simply saying if you’re not willing to ask, “Hey, where does your pork come from? Who raises it? What certificating bodies are there? Like what certifications do they have? Are they G.A.P. certified or are you just telling me this?” Because if you’re a true producer or a farmer, you’re willing to have people on your farm look at my pigs or they’ll show you the certifications that they have, like G.A.P. certification or Certified Humane and so on and so forth.
But, if you’re just like,”Hey, what certification does this have?” Hey, their heritage or hey, they’re raised right or they’re “antibiotic free”, that’s just greenwashing at its finest. “They’re natural”, which means about as much as me being good looking… nothing.
How are you connecting to farmers? Like, how are you finding people to raise pork in this way?
Yeah, that’s a great question. Luckily Portland is small. Oregon’s small. It’s a small circle of people that are doing it well. I’ve worked farmer’s markets with the Deck Family Farm since the day I’ve been around and as they were out there growing their herds, talking about what they’re doing right. They’re an amazing family and they kept holding me accountable, being like, hey, “When are you finally going to do this? When are you going to do that?” And then as soon as you get one farmer, they’re like, “Hey, have you heard of another farm down the road? They have some pigs. They’re certified organic. They have X, Y, and Z.” And then you just kind of keep in the circle. Social media is an amazing place, right now. You could do(search) “Pacific Northwest pasture raised pig” and find five more farmers right now that are trying to bring their products to market. So the demand for it’s out there.
What’s the difference between how your pigs are raised and now more factory farm pigs are raised?
I’d say that’s probably the biggest takeaway in the entire conversation here is that 98.3% of all pork in America, every single one of them, doesn’t matter what that label looks like, is raised in confinement. Like, honest to God, these animals are tortured, their teeth are pulled out, their ears are clipped, their tails are clipped. They’re never going to turn around. They live their entire life in a tiny little room, never sitting (and) on slatted floors. I’m the exact opposite of that. My pigs are raised outside. They have room to turn around. They’re never chained or tortured. They’re able to roam, build muscle structure, and improve the land on which they’re on. So night and day. But again, we’re only a tiny, tiny percentage of this. But I can definitely say, if you don’t know the farmer in the Pacific Northwest directly, that’s raising your pigs no matter what that label says, if it doesn’t come from Olympia Provisions, those animals are tortured and they are confinement hogs.
What’s the difference in what they eat?
That’s a great question. See, I’m a true believer in pigs rummaging for half of their diet to two thirds of their diet, you know, I think should be out there. (There’s actually a narrative) I’ve stood on pork boards where they said hogs “are allergic to grass.” And you kind of have to ask yourself, how the hell did they make it to now? Like they they always were fed something from that and they forage. So there’s a huge narrative out there that pigs only need to eat oats and corn. I like my pigs to truly have a diverse diet. I kind of think back to tomatoes back in the 90’s, you know, where every tomato had to be perfectly red and taste of refrigerator.
If people were just to break away and think that pigs throughout the year should have a change in flavor and they should taste epic and all of the nuances that come around with it, that’s it. I allow my farmers because mine are so diverse in the Pacific Northwest. We have them in Northern California, Eastern Oregon, and then right here in the Willamette Valley.
I really like them to look at what their pigs need for a diet and then you know, let them tell me what happens to bring the perfect hog and then enjoy the nuances of the flavors between them. But most pigs across America are fed, you know, GMO fed corn pumped full of all sorts of bad chemicals and then out to market.
So some of my pigs will be finished on hazelnuts and wild forest acorns, and some will eat Cheatgrass grass and sage, and some of them down there where the brothers raise it will do oats and soy. Each one of the farmers has a nuanced flavor in it and to me, I think that’s so fascinating.
How is it represented in the taste between your your pigs and factory raised pigs?
That’s a great question. I’m really close to it and I’m extremely passionate about it, (as you can tell) and we’ve done so many blind tastings to prove it. Luckily in my work we have anything from mechanics to sanitation support, to master somms, to super fancy chefs and we’ll do blind tasting side by side. Where they’ll never know. Where like 98% (of the) people will always choose the pasture raised, what people will instantly notice is there is flavor. When people think of pork for a very long time, they think of, “the white meat” like, “just add salt” pork. Make sure you brine it. Make sure you do all of the crazy stuff you have to do, but, if a pig is out there exercising, doing this amazing stuff, it has a ton of nuance. I mean, you’ll taste it in grass fed beef to beef that is finished with different diets. You can actually taste it in the hog. It’s so much more, it’s a much more mellow base. If you know, beef has more flavor and depth umami to it and pork is a very subtle palate, if you will. So if you add acorns, peaches or apples, you will pick up nuances of sweetness and tannic and all of those interesting things. But that was a deep level nerd shit. I’m sorry people.
While we sit in front of your vineyard, well, this sounds like a discussion of terroir.
It is 100%. Yeah, it’s been removed. And I mean, you see that in wine, right? It’s fascinating to me that the way that you raise animals isn’t the thought of the same as wine. It’s huge (in) the way you grow grapes across America, organic, biodynamic, all of the things everybody can easily point to the fact that those grapes are going to have a different flavor and more nuance if you’re going, you know, flat bottom plonk wine and you’re going to kill it with all the chemicals that you do, you know what you’re going to get.
Why would that be different with an animal? It’s absolutely not. If you have a farmer that really cares and allows their pigs to do all sorts of things and is really invested in what they’re eating, you produce just a completely complex and different product than what commodities out there.
You mentioned the different kinds of finishing, are you starting to say “Hey can you get them more hazelnuts?” or are you starting to influence those diets in order to get an outcome or a flavor that you’re interested in?
You know, that’s an interesting thing. I really want my farmers to succeed. You know, if they were to ever bring me a product that sucked, that was truly off or wrong or rancid, if they fed it carp or something in it, and it was in there, I would (influence them). They would never do that because they’re eating it and they’re being there. I want my farmers to look at their operation and say, “Hey, this is what it’s going to take me to survive. Like, this farm needs this.” And if it produces a pig within spec, and that’s usually from weight and fat content that I’m completely happy.
So, you know, more so what I would I really like people to think about is that the animal should be a part of the regenerative movement of land. That gets thrown around a lot. Right now animals are taken away(out of that movement) They’re kind of demonized, right? Like pigs are absolutely tortured. They bring no value to it. But if you look at my farmers, all three that we’re working with currently, they have a mission with what they’re doing with their pigs to improve the land. If that means, hey, this pig has to eat sagebrush, or this pig is going to be underneath the white oaks eating acorns off the ground. That’s what I want. I want to see what that pig looks like, taste it, see what the nuance is on it, and see what we have to adjust accordingly.
But a good farmer will know what that means. Like, if you’re hands on out there being with your pigs, you know what they need to get to market. You know what you need to supplement their feed with, so on and so forth. It’s fascinating. I think one of the most interesting ones is Deck Family Farm.
They’re surrounded by white oak savannahs. That’s hazelnut country, which is the Willamette Valley. They had a white hazelnut mite. So big hazelnut went to Deck family farm and they’re like, “You need a herbicide and pesticide underneath all of your white oaks.” And they were like, well, that’s kind of crazy. The white oaks are there to protect the rivers anyways and so now you’re asking me to put herbicides and pesticides underneath these white oaks which flow into my stream. Would you guys be willing to allow us to run pigs underneath these white oaks to eat the acorns and see if they remove them by chance? (Knowing well that every pig is going to lose their mind once they smell acorns), they run their pigs underneath these trees, they eat acorns. They supplement it with excess hazelnuts for their diet. They remove the blackberries underneath it, and then two years later, they’ve never had to herbicide or pesticide any of them, utilizing the animals to improve the soil and never have to put something harmful into the rivers. Now that’s the way animals should be raised. They should have the opportunity to get out there, improve the soil and actually farm it, not put it in a cage where all their waste is put in a pond.
Are there health benefits to this, for us to eat?
Well, you know, I haven’t done any scientific documentation on it, but I do think if once you’re aware of it, you can feel proud and have less stress that you’re supporting a local thing and doing what’s right. I do think that has to do with flavor and consciousness knowing you’re supporting something that is actually true and genuine and trying to make a difference should make you feel good and then you sleep well at night. Sleep is probably good for health. And that’s all I have to say about that topic.
What’s some of the crap they inject into the animal at places like Safeway?
Yeah, it’s endless… Like you’ll read, antibiotic free, right? That’s a big one where they’re saying that’s like a value add, antibiotic free. Every confinement cell operation utilizes antibiotics, every one of them, no matter what you’re saying. So if it says antibiotic free, that’s meaning 2 to 3 weeks before they go to kill plants, they’ve given them antibiotics. You know what happens when you get antibiotics? They begin antibiotic resistant pathogens. They just keep getting worse and worse, and they up the dosage and create new pathogens and then pretty soon, these animals are just drugged up until an outbreak finally happens and they kill the entire herd and move on. So that happens. That’s the industry standard in pork. That is just a sad fact of what’s happening. Our farmers are never ever (using) antibiotics. They’re never allowed to use antibiotics. And so if a cold happens you do like you put a human, you separate them. You give them space. You never have your pigs live on top of each other. You have to be invested, if you hear a cough or if you hear something like that, be sure that herd is separate. Treat them like they’re ill. Give them proper food, rest them. Do those things. Bring it back to market, but don’t pump it full of antibiotics.(That’s) the last case scenario: get rid of the herd and that, you know that’s part of it. But it happens. A very rare and properly raised pasture is pork. But that was deep. Then on the back end to get color into it and all the tricks that we have, it’s super unregulated.
That’s kind of what we’re referring to, there’s like a saline solution that they pump into pork after it’s butchered?
Pork after it’s butchered, then they dump that stuff in?
The old school, which is getting more regulated but still happens is they get the vein passages and they’ll tap dye into it to pump it through. That’ll take the oxygen out of the meat to make sure it stays pink the entire time. Not necessarily a chemical, but just not proper practice. Like you could allow a pig to have the worst diet, never move, never create muscle structure and get a pink hue, even though it would be whiter than chicken, which is horrible cheating. Or just have a pig move around and roam and do the things that would give good muscle, connectivity and delicious flavor and cool meat color, But nah; fuck that.
How do restaurateurs get access to this?
Chef’s Warehouse is distributing my product in the Pacific Northwest. In Seattle and here (Portland, OR) in Bend and Mount Hood and Walla Walla. You can reach out direct for sure. Whole Foods Market Northwest sells it at the counter and Market of Choice also sells over the counter and then of course, Olympia Provisions products are, you know, it. The meat industry’s absolutely fucked at this (like the fresh meat industry) but the value added charcuterie meat industry is even worse. I don’t think I know of a salami producer or a meat producer in all of America.
There is excuse me, Smoking Goose, I love you guys. They do create and celebrate pasture raised animals.
But besides that, all of the expensive salami out there is the worst hogs in America. They hide it, they mask it. They try to say that it’s, you know, antibiotic free, heritage breeds, but they’re absolutely lying to you. The value added charcuterie world, it’s frickin disgusting.
So please support my salami. Buy my hot dogs! (Laughs)
What’s been some feedback that you’ve heard from folks who started carrying the pasture raised pork line?
That was also really, really, really intimidating. Right when I launched the pork product, (it’s kind of like every time I’ve created a product), you kind of have, like, yeah, you can give it to the masses but then at some point, Kevin Gibson or, Gabe Rucker or GG is going to be like, “Hey, this is…” and you’re like, fuck, what’s happening? I can remember I dropped it off at the Laurelhurst market was my first customer to support it and those boys know a lot about meat and the second that the entire butcher staff tasted it;
they’re like, “We’re in.” It wasn’t even priced. First it was like, “Hey, what do we need to support this? How is this going to happen?” And also we are competitive in price, which is kind of baffling. It was very, very nice to hear GG (Gregory Gourdet of Cann Restaurant) and that amazing team to take everything so simple or so, you know, they’re so specific on what they do, that’s how you get to that level To him clearly say, “This is the best pork I’ve ever had since I’ve been on Haiti” (or any of these places). So, yeah. And Kevin Gibson, we all know he’s Jack and I worked with him. He’s a very picky human being.
Kirk: “I catch him eating a Randy like once a month!”
Yeah, that’s a huge, flattering compliment. And he only texts me about one out of every four times that I fucked up. So it’s great. But, you know, when you’re starting to see your peers that you really admire and respect, love it and celebrate it and make it a staple of their menu, it really builds your confidence in what the farmers are doing, and they’re able to work with these products. You know, like I have gone into bigger hotel chains and so on and so forth where they’re like, “What do you mean? Their diet is varying?” And I was like, yeah, you’re going to have to celebrate that. The pork’s going to have amazing depth and flavor, but they will vary. Then to (have them) walk away and be like, “That’s crazy. We can’t. Our customers are going to lose their minds.” Or do you celebrate it? Do you recognize that you’re cooking a real living product that needs nuance and needs depth? And these chefs at this level are all about it. I love getting an email or text or a message being like, “This is by far the greatest batch we’ve ever had. Can we always get this?” And be like, probably for a few more weeks until the diet changes and then onward and upward, pretty soon you’re going to have even a better one, I promise.
When you receive the animal, what are you doing in order to preserve those qualities?
Yeah. It’s very meat nerdy and fascinating. The biggest thing is fat analysis.
Totally sounds “scientific-y.” It’s where we take different parts from it. We run a grind blend and we run it through a fat analysis to see what our fat content is and what we have to adjust to make perfect charcuterie for it. Then we taste it with just salt, and every new batch or farm that we produce, I create a product called Saucisson D’Arles, which is just sea salt and mold salami. It ferments very subtly and it picks up all the nuances while it dries. That end result will tell you exactly what that pork tastes like. It’s an unbelievable kind of process. The only problem with that is it takes 25 days to do this. That pork has already way gone, but you could see between, you know, as it develops this time of year and we take ungodly amount of notes of like, “Hey, this pig mid-summer right now, eating a lot of dropped acorns, probably getting a lot of squash from the farmers, you know, compost pile, whatever it is it’s doing this to it. Hey, next year, let’s make sure we lower the temperature,” make sure the chefs know what’s going to come out. The coolest thing is that this is a bigger, longer project, right? I love things that are going to take 20 years till it’s fucking dialed and I’m going to have different things. But just like the idea of it, of just getting out there and exploring what these are is more fun than it actually is, when it’s going to be finished.
Like in 20 years when we’re like, have 17 farmers that are hopefully all pasture raised and it’s a nationwide movement and farmers are talking around from state to state about this? I’d love to share my notes, to be like, “Hey, this is how we did it. Like, you know, during the fall, it’s really easy to have a very fatty pig because everything’s ripe when it gets hot… Check this out. Make sure they’re not only eating tomatoes or whatever it is. Keep some of your wheat supplement for this time of year.” But yeah, it’s it’s super fascinating
It’s kinda kitchen nerdy, but it feels like there’s that opportunity to talk to people like Kevin Gibson later on and say, “hey you got this pork this way. That is spring pork… that is fall pork… They’re all different.” How are you responding to that as it comes in? May in a way to celebrate all those distinctions?
Yeah, exactly. And keeping really clear notes in the chaotic world of how they taste and what farm came in from what and any hurdles that they see. The biggest part is I think that where value added meat producers have a chance to make this actually functional is being willing to work with the farmer on that, you know, where again, it’s harder on any company to have a nuanced thing that’s making a lot of product. But to be able to be like, not everything is going to be perfect, it has to be delicious to some extent, for sure. But if there is a flaw in it, make sure everybody knows about it. Hey, we noticed this. What happened in this feed cycle? Can you share some data with us? (There’s not a lot of data in the farming world.) Can you tell me some background about what these pigs were eating that might have brought this nuance to it? Next year, let’s try something else. But it’s just it’s really, really, really fun. Luckily we produce a lot of meat at Olympia Provisions. So, you know, 35 hogs a week will allow me to produce seven different types of salami, fresh sausages, mortadella, pates and then sell fresh market. So, I’m getting an amazing amount of data to see what works best when and anytime we have a flaw or anything we have something is absolutely exceptional? We mark it, we track it, we put it in the data bank and move on.
So as the farm to table movement has grown much more popular. You know, it’s like tomatoes; you could get a piece of cardboard that’s painted red or you could have an actual tomato that does vary in taste. You would think people would want the same thing with their meat.
Yeah, and I think there’s something key in that too, as farm to table moved and popularity, more people are trying to glom on that from a marketing perspective and hide what is real. That’s what we’re seeing mostly in the meat industry. Everybody knows you want that “feel good” (and to) picture yourself having these amazing animals raised properly, but there’s more people hiding it than other people that are actually doing it. So, there’s no doubt that people want to feel good and taste the nuances of it. But, there’s a lot of people that are going to try to hide it.
There’s going to be a lot of people that put farmers up on their butcher counter and by confinement hogs and just, you know, make you feel good as you’re doing it. So how will we get the masses, the chefs, the people, to ask the right questions and make sure labeling is genuine and honest? It’s a big fight for the next decade until we are not only celebrating, but living it in the farmers, the small family farms that are actually doing the damn work, or getting the the majority of what they’re doing there. They’re the profit from this whole movement.
Would you talk about your commitment to buying the whole hog and why that’s important.
Yeah for sure. I think as a true charcuterie maker, at least the way that I was always taught, is that your job is to take every piece of that animal and add value to it, make sure that everything can get on it. You can sell loins, a tenderloin, that’s no problem. But what can you really make with trim? What can you do with skin? What are these things to actually bring value that the most picky consumer could do this? What usually happens in a small pasture is farm is they don’t have the ability to go to market and sell the entire hog. So like, a farmer will go to a farmer’s market and then they will sell out of loins, bellies, chops or whatever it is. But then they’re stuck with lard, bone, feet, X, Y, and Z. Even when they were working with Whole Foods on a project like this, it only got so big until Whole Foods couldn’t deal with, hey, we don’t make sausages, we don’t do all this.
So, when I stepped back and looked at the whole problem, I said, “What can Olympia Provisions do as a charcuterie maker to make this a pure zero waste program?” And that’s when Pauly and Josh and everyone kind of is like, “Hey, we have what is our biggest loss leader in this? What is the biggest waste? We possibly have skin, bone, feet, heads. What are we going to do with all this consistently that we can actually make an impact from this?” We decided to make a pet treat. So we take the bones, the skin, everything, grind at six times, put it in the casing and to this day, it’s the hardest charcuterie product I have ever made in my entire life. Two years of R&D. I was like, yeah, it’s a dog treat, it doesn’t frigging matter. Come to find out? Pet treats need a year and a half shelf life, they can’t mold on that life. How do you ferment bone? What do you do with skin? Yeah, it just turned into a huge ordeal and it’s still just like it’s we’re so, so proud of it.
Then there is a big ordeal with this, right? Like, hey, don’t put your brand on a pet treat. It’s going to lower the quality of such a high quality brand. And in that exact time we had Paulie and Josh and Mallory and all these amazing people being like, but they’ll never learn the mission. You’ll never learn that you have to buy the entire animal and have responsibility for it.
So you should be having this conversation. So also, thanks for letting me have this conversation right now.
And the pet treat is under the Olympia Provisions label?
Yep. It is. So you can get (what) I would I would easily say the most humanely raised pet treat done in a USDA food grade plant in America. And it’s a great price point.
You brought up the price point a couple times. How are you working through the economics? I’m assuming you can’t scale like the factory farms do, it’s the reason they’re built that way. How are you keeping everything in a price point that makes sense for you and the farmers?
Yeah, that is definitely the biggest hurdle. There is definitely a ceiling on pork. You know, people still consider pork. They want the $1.99 pork chop, so on and so forth. Again, I think Olympia Provisions is very strategic and lucky that we have such a diverse product line. I can sell the highest, most expensive quality salami to the wonderful people in Berkeley or Williamsburg so I can take them and sell my $22 stick of salami. I can add every little piece to my hot dogs, to everything, to kind of to impact and to make sure that that price comes down. Then working with partners and having the conversation, you know, when I’m fortunate enough to work with Whole Foods or the great people at Market of Choice, they see the bigger picture, they know the greenwashing of all the other brands are out there. “Hey, do you guys really want to see this be a sustainable thing that actually happens in America?” Then support it. It is going to cost you more now.
We are working with the kill plants and the producers and the feed and everything we possibly can to keep that price competitive. Then it’s on us to market it well, to sell it well. (We have) to get out there and you know, tell people and honestly to call people out. When I’m seeing people, you know, trying to sell and greenwash and make this? Having frank conversations, “You know, you’re ruining this.” Like you say, “You want antibiotic free pork or heritage and small family farms, but you’re not doing anything to support it.” And then watch them kind of, you know, get scared and shake in their boots a little bit. It’s really the best…
So you got this environment where there’s a lot of greenwashing… and then you’ve got your program, and your ethics, you might be right next to somebody who is greenwashing. How are you getting that in front of the consumer that there’s a difference between these two products?
I like to sit in front of a camera in my backyard and tell people (laughing).
You know, if I were to have figured this out, again, we’re still in it. We’re just still trying to get people to talk about it and understand the difference. Being transparent and making sure people know that if you’re going to work with my product now, when people invite me to say, I’m very, very, very happy to say, “Please come to my plant, please support me, let’s go down the road and meet my farmers. Let me show you that I produce everything and let me tell you how rare that is in America.” And then like, let’s have that conversation and please do me a favor? Ask the exact same questions to the other people you’re supporting and see if they invite you into their plant. See if they invite you to their farms, because if they don’t, they’re hiding something. You know that it’s going to take a long time and to say that we figured it out completely? We haven’t. Right? This is still a big dream and I have big partners and I don’t think anybody’s getting rich off this yet. I do know that I’m supporting a bunch of farmers that are doing it the right way, and people are starting to talk about it.
Chefs are happy. My product’s never been better. That’s the first big win. The next big win is that we make it sustainable and people believe in it. And then the third big win is then America kind of looks at it (and will) be like, “Holy crap, this is how pork was supposed to be raised. And charcuterie companies are supposed to utilize it? You’re supposed to have a positive impact?” And then I retire and I fart through silk, Jack.
I wonder how many vegans stopped eating meat because of how it’s raised?
Yeah, and they’re right. Vegans are 100% right. It doesn’t take much to walk into one confinement pig farm and see the land, see the place, see these tortured animals to be like, yeah, this ain’t right, this isn’t it.
They are 100% right. I can’t eat that stuff. That’s not the way it’s supposed to be. I mean, having a harmful impact on the environment just because it tastes good is fucking crazy. and they’re absolutely right. Torturing animals is 100% wrong. Is there a happy medium there? 100%. Is it going to cost more and you have to have a change in mentality for it? Then yes.
It is amazing when you do see people that are on the fence with it, go to one of these farms and see the impact of the environment and see the quail flying and the birds and how green the grass is and how happy the employees are, and the pigs and the farmer.
Then it’s a different conversation. It’s still very sad. You know, harming an animal is horrible. But if we’re going to eat protein, there’s horrible and then there’s absolutely atrocious and that’s where the industry is right now.
In other parts of the country, how could they find someone like you locally? What are some of the things that they need to ask?
Yeah. First and foremost, go into a farmer’s market, and I know that’s kind of dreamy and idealistic and a lot of places don’t have that. But if you can or are fortunate enough to go to a farmer’s market and meet farmers that are actually raising protein, that’s the best place to start. Obviously they make the most money going directly. Then the second one is just demanding, at all the higher end grocers, co-ops, specialty stores and from the value added products on, ask them what are their sourcing standards?
If they say the catch phrases like, “heritage breeds” or “antibiotic free” be like, “I’m asking about what the sourcing standard is and who is the auditing body behind that.” If they don’t have a clear answer to you, they’re lying to you. And that’s that’s the thing.
What should they be looking for in regards to certification?
I am a true believer in G.A.P. certification, global animal partnership, it was founded by the wonderful people originally at Whole Foods, and it’s a tiered structure that allows farmers to get better at farming. Like the first one is, “Don’t harm your animals. Give them enough space, don’t clip ears, don’t ever, ever give antibiotics. The second one is outdoor access. Third is, two-thirds of their life on outdoor access and G.A.P. four the ones that our farmers are, is continual life on pasture.” I think G.A.P. certification is the greatest because also their auditing body is honest, they do audits every year. They make sure every farm is audited. That is that is a unicorn in the meat industry. What is normal is you’ll get bodies like, Certified Humane where you’ll have one farm that is certified humane and is audited every two years, while they have 90 farms. that are part of the conglomerate that are completely confinement operations, but they never get audited.
You’re allowed to select one of X farms every two years to do it, “certified humane” on your label and off to the races. It’s disgusting. And we should all be pissed. Everybody hates getting lied to and like they’re just blatantly doing it in the pork industry.
Anything else?
Can I get into co-packing? Co-packing in the meat industry, especially in the value added world is something very interesting. Probably 90, well I think 98 to 99% of all value added meat products out there, that’s like the cured stuff that’s out there is, produced by three names, like three big brands. Same is actually the fresh meat where most of it gets killed and they all just come out with different labels on it. Like what’s so bad about that? It’s that I hope when you buy my product, you believe in my views,you know, I actually make this. I’m trying to give nuance to this product and define things. If you only have three big houses, they’re going to control the narrative across America. You’re never going to find nuance. You’re never going to have other voices across America being like, “Hey, we should try to support Small Factory Farm” because of the big houses…
Who are they? (the big houses that do co- packing)
Tyson’s a huge one. You know, there’s a lot of smaller ones in the salami value added product, there’s a bunch of houses. I don’t want to get too much in trouble. I still do see these people, but, you’ll go to a Whole Foods or you’ll go to a New Seasons. You’ll see an entire line of fresh sausages up there and, you know, two houses made that across America with different labels across all of it. So it’s really important to have that conversation. Hey, are you producing this product? Is this a small producer that’s adding to it? Not only is it the voices, but like I’m a true believer in interesting products and terroir and having cool things and if we only have two houses making it, we’ll never get to the point where wine or beer or cheese is in the world. We’re just going to have one kind of bland tasting charcuterie across America, as opposed to, you know, having what is some guy doing in Louisiana that’s making epic stuff out of their pigs? And so on, and then have much more, I think, an in-depth product.
Then the value added the salami and fresh sausage? The only tag we have is the USDA label. If you look at the number that’s actually on there, there’s a directory that’ll show you where it’s actually produced. So if you do look at a USDA plant number on a stick of salami or a fresh sausage, it’ll show you what plant it’s made in and you’ll be baffled that you know that that beautiful small artisan meat company in Brooklyn is actually making their product in Iowa.
You really start to learn the numbers after a while. In the wine industry, a bottle of champagne has a tiny label where you can actually see if it’s made in the house that claimed it. Like it’s all labeled but it’s not part of “the label” and you have to learn how to read it.
I think the amazing people in the cheese world have done a lot for that like the ACS American Cheese Society. You’re seeing the artisan cheese movement be amazing. Like you can go into Kroger right now and get artisan and cheese and all these small producers that are doing it right. It just needs to happen in the meat industry. They need to start asking more questions like this and having, you know, I don’t think they’ll ever be meat somms in America, but other countries have them.
So maybe you can start the program.
I should, I should in my spare time.
Are you looking for more farmers to work with?
Yeah, we always are looking for more farmers, but currently, we have to increase our pet trade sales till I bring on more. You know, the biggest fear in our entire company is to get over our heads and over promise to anybody.
Again, if I’ve had 13 failures at this and maybe even more as I built through this, and so I’m trying to build it really robust and have really honest conversations of what it would take. We have four farmers that are waiting in the weighing right now that are raising it and that are going direct.
I just really need a few key partners to help it grow. Right now, the pace that it’s growing, I love that I’m older and I’ve been making products and the company. It’s healthy like I have enough capacity in my brain to handle it. You know, there’s enough in my team to be like, we can do this and keep growing.
So I like the growth rate that we’re at right now, but as soon as I get a few more Petri companies, so on and so forth, it’ll move on. But yeah, it’s available so we can help with that.
Where can people buy your pet treats?
Mud Bay was a partner. New Seasons, Whole Foods, Olympia Provisions. Mallory it’s kind of your world? Mallory, “You just named them all.” Most independent retailers. Exactly. Hotels are starting to pick them up, and, it’s pretty great. It’s one of the one products I am going to private label too. So I’m looking to work with partners like Patagonia, so on and so forth. That’ll be taking it, which will be cool.